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Saturday, March 4, 2023

A Discussion about Spin Generation, a Video Link and some Thoughts

 It looks like the rain is almost here on this cool and windy Saturday.  A good time to write.  I guess I need a brandy and a roaring fire to properly set the mood...


John Cincola is a PB pro and has created some good videos, in my view.  He created one on spin generation recently.  I'll link to it here.     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjzvVrFy7kA

He didn't get into a lot of depth.  In his view we:

Create top spin with a swing path that is low to high and the paddle is basically parallel to the net (flat face).

Create topspin by swinging parallel to the ground, with the paddle face being open (pointing to the sky).

Basically: we have the difference in paddle face angle and the swing path that imparts the spin to the ball.


My PB game uses a lot of spin.  I come from table tennis, where spin is required on all shots.  I would add some detail to what John has said.  I don't know if he would disagree with me as his video was aimed at beginners.

Firstly he discourages a backspin creation shot that moves high to low.  He called it choppy.  This is my usual production method of hitting a backspin or side spin shot.  I've recently been playing around with his method of swinging flat with an open face.  I like what I'm seeing with the non-chop swing.  I think it's maybe easier to do.  The spin production seems good.  I'm not quite sure about controlling a marginal shot, as it's going to create a pop up.  I've been surprised that the ball doesn't want to pop up be default.  I'm not sure what's happening at impact, but maybe it's like hitting a low shot with a lofted golf club, or the paddle face is grabbing the ball and you're not getting the high bounce off of it.  In any case, the angle of the paddle face is the important variable.  And can a good chop shot create more spin than the flat swing?  I don't know.  It might be useful to have both shots.

His top spin algorithm is fine with me, though I tend to have the paddle face open a touch to get a better lift over the net.  The paddle face angle must be altered based on how high the ball is when you hit it.  The lower it is, the more open the paddle needs to be.  The higher the ball, you'll need to have a flatter paddle and of course, when hitting down on the ball, the paddle face must be closed, and you might still want to hit those shots with topspin, so it's still a high to low swing.  Face angle is crucial.

Final thoughts in swing length.  John while demoing his shots is using almost all wrist to hit the ball.  I ran across a video by the Pickleball Pirates (YouTube) where there was the claim that if you hit the ball with just your wrist, you'll improve your play by four years of experience.  Well, that seems a bit too wonderful, but we've all seen players who come from tennis who have really exaggerated arm and body swings.  

I have some of that, and it's not the best use of my time.  I want the paddle back to ready as soon as possible and a big backswing and follow through take time and effort to get the paddle back.  I like the idea of just fencing with outstretched hands and quick wrist movement.

So those are the two things I'm exploring right now, the flat spin stroke and more of a wristy, in front of me, swing pattern.  Oh, and moving my feet a lot more.

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